On Lore / Ch3 Update


A Quick Ch3 Update

Foremost, thank you to everyone who has donated to the project ever since we opened up the “pay what you want” feature. Every little bit helps.

Next, we’ve decided to split chapter 3 in half so there’s less of a wait for some kind of release. This chapter just happens to be front- and back-loaded on assets, so it allows for an even split–we can keep up momentum rather than waiting several more months for a big chunky build. We’re trying to get the first half out in May and the second half out in June or early July.

Now for a longer discussion (skip to the Conclusion for the tl;dr).

On Lore

It’s come to our attention via feedback that there’s a discourse concerning “infodumps” and heavy worldbuilding. The short of it is that some people enjoy encyclopedic depth, and others find it tedious and distracting. How this relates to String Zero specifically is twofold: how we relay information in the prose, and how we relay information through the LOOM database.

Lore in Prose

I don’t think there’s much for us to do here, but let’s walk through it anyways.

The communication of world details needs to be a) efficient, to get the point across, but also b) evocative, to provide a strong sense of setting; it’s very much a challenge to do both at the same time. The SZ editor Wyatt actually does a lot of work redlining unnecessary details in the script drafts to keep the game’s pacing strong. Generally speaking, we try to avoid expository info dumps (unavoidable sometimes) and communicate worldbuilding information through dialogue, instead.

So without some specific examples, it’s difficult for us to respond to concerns of “infodumping” in the prose, since we already put a lot of energy into cleaning that up as part of our normal editorial process. I wonder if part of the issue is an unfamiliarity with cyberpunk (and Science Fiction) literature, which drops worldbuilding details like company names and products as a matter of course to evoke a specific environment–unavoidable in an alien/futuristic setting like this. It’s also worth noting that not all worldbuilding details will have immediate payoffs: Some of it may seem pointless in the moment, but is building on something that will have relevance later.

Regardless, there’s an art to communicating the details, so we’re likely to have moments where we get it right and moments where we miss the mark. Specific examples in feedback help us target where there might be issues, whether the reviewer is familiar with the genre or not. The best technique is probably one that gently challenges casual readers, but only to a point, without leaning too heavily into the alien/unknown.

Your assistance via feedback is critical in helping us get this right.

Lore in Databases

The LOOM itself has been pointed to as a problem by some readers.

I think for the most part including a “glossary” that can be referenced for simple definitions, while universally appreciated, is also limiting and dry.

To communicate the information in a more meaningful way, one must keep in mind a) the method of communication and b) the length of articles/prose. The problem is that there is no accepted standard of how to approach either of these things. The Bioware-style Mass Effect codex was loved and hated because of article length and sheer size. Even hover-over hyperlinks with short popups popular in isometric RPGs are derided because they can be repetitive and aren’t always accessible. Some people hail games that provide context by interacting with objects, or hidden in item descriptions like in Dark Souls–and those are all very interesting remedies, but not very pragmatic for the visual novel.

So with a lack of some standard beyond just “a simple glossary,” the best one can do is base design on intention. For us, the intention of the LOOM has always been for it to be optional, but also to provide some reward for reading it by tying it to the narrative in a specific way (hinted at in the very first entry).

Which leads us to the current complaint: “If the database of information is auxiliary, why include it in the game at all? Why not have a stripped-down glossary in the game, with all the deep lore details housed out of the game on a wiki somewhere?”

I think the same can be asked of AAA games or even novels that include detailed lineages and maps and other supplementary information. Beyond the fact that managing anything external to a project (like a wiki) demands a huge number of questions related to convenience and accessibility, an argument might go something like this:

Argument: “Why do you have this [database/glossary/extra lore stuff]?”

Counter: “It’s information that’s helpful but not necessary reading.”

Argument: “Then just include the useful stuff in the prose and put the rest somewhere else.”

Counter: “The database (or whatever) IS somewhere else.”

Argument: “If it’s part of the game/novel, the implication is it’s intended to be read. Some readers feel compelled to read everything presented in good faith that it’s important.”

Counter: “Is every word always read in a novel? Every side quest played in a game? People skim, skip around, and ignore things all the time.”

Argument: “But is that fair? If the text indicates with a notification or reference or citation that additional information exists to be read, that feels like a clear statement it should be read.”

Counter: “Those who want to can experience it fully; those who don’t can experience as much as they want. The narrative speaks for itself, so you can ignore the other stuff.”

Argument: “If it’s ignorable, why have indications at all?”

Counter: “If it’s ignorable, why not just ignore it?”

And so on, etc. The short of it is: How do you provide extra content for those who will enjoy it, but don’t make it seem obligatory to those who find it distracting or are simply not interested?

Conclusion

As has been correctly stated elsewhere, it’s unlikely these sorts of things will put off or stop most readers from enjoying the novel; we just see it reflected in our ratings and feedback, so some redress is warranted.

We think, preferences aside (because we can’t really design around those), that the issue with the LOOM is in the notification. It’s difficult to ignore, and practically shouts to be clicked on. (Which, from our perspective, was the original intent because we thought all readers would want to be made immediately aware of any additional content; we have since learned through feedback how distracting it can be.) So we’re going to work on some kind of a remedy to make it less in-your-face.

As for the length of the articles. It seems that there’s never going to be a consensus on what length is “too long,” so it seems like the best approach is just in construction: to try and put the immediately relevant information at the top of articles for quick reference, and the more indulgent worldbuilding details lower.

As for the prose, we don’t really see how we can approach the complaints of “infodumping” there, since the narrative simply won’t function without some level of worldbuilding exposition and related dialogue. For now, we can only chalk this up to personal preference, though we continue to remain open to feedback.

As always, if you have thoughts on anything discussed here, feel free to leave a comment.

Thanks again for your interest and feedback, everyone!

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Comments

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(-1)

Yeah once a thing adds to loom its impossible to get an instantenious access to it. Very annoying

(2 edits)

Thanks for the feedback!

Because we do multiple article updates per LOOM notification, (rather than every notification being for a specific article), do you think it would be less annoying to just have the LOOM send a notification at the end of every major scene (or chapter) with the expectation there will be multiple new/updated articles?

We don’t want to do a notification for every new update because then updates would be very frequent.

Maybe we can figure out some way for it to list all the updates in a separate window. 🤔 And just have a handful of notification alerts per build.

(1 edit) (-1)

i’m no game developer, but why is it so hard providing an immediate link to the in-game wiki entry? Other vns (like Nekojishi) are doing it with ease, it shouldn’t be a rocket science 

(1 edit)

Like the LOOM itself (which is custom-made), that functionality isn’t baked into ren’py and requires custom python code and actual programming knowledge, so it is in fact quite challenging. Our situation also isn’t identical to Nekojishi’s use of a glossary, so it’s not something we can emulate directly.

(But it is something we’re looking into, along with a couple of other options.)

(+2)(-1)

My issue that made the loom annoying to me was, The scavenger hunt clicking all tabs to find the one new thing to clear the notification. And as you said, the notification itself is hard to just ignore. 


I started out reading them, but having to spend a decent time finding the new stuff made me just want to skip reading it entirely

(1 edit)

Definitely noted. We’re working on some ways to make new articles easier to find and the notification itself to be less demanding. Thanks for the feedback!